November Update - New Mechanic & Caps

[moustre]

Samuin, a time of year's end, of settling matters both business and personal, began Octeuril 31st and ends Noveuer 2nd -- while the festivities itself have sprung slightly since the frightful experiences the rest of the month, the main event is what everyone's been waiting for:

The fireworks.

While the city prepares its grand farewell to the past year, inviting all to the roofs in order to see the display, one Witch stays below. With a willing Monster volunteer, he sought the answers to his own inquiry, aided by the months' happenings; if they could transform those temporarily, in such a fascinating and real way, then was it truly impossible to change your lot in life should you wish it?

Delving into the Coven's most secret and dangerous of ingredients, he cast a spell as she drank the solution so finely tuned after trial and error, and with little more than a cry did they find themselves switched; while it became more apparent to his own body, quickly gaining feathers whereas she began to lose some of her own, it took only the practice of a beginner's spell for Four, someone who'd once been a Harpy, to learn that she had been the successful test subject of a short lifetime's work.

And with that bit of flavor out of the way, a warm thank you to Owlie for allowing us the grandest excuse to introduce something we felt would be most appropriately done when the boundaries were low and magic high -- role switching. Should you feel your character is more of a Witch or one of the Monsters after all, you have the choice to change it -- provided they've been in the game for at least three months, to give a full experience of the prior role.

This is also a permanent process. Once changed, they cannot change back nor change into something new -- it's already upsetting the balance, and the Coven, once it's caught wind of their former Witch's dealings, have officiated it as such too. The ingredients used to prepare it are rare and cultivated entirely within Nessie's gardens, which means someone certainly was where they shouldn't be; regardless, it is possible now!

Monsters who would like to change into another species are also applicable, and there is one restriction to this change: No one can be changed into a Dragon or Fae, regardless of reasoning. A post for this new feature can be found here with all the trappings and further information, so be sure to look at it if you're interested!


Regarding Caps
We've looked through your responses and have decided on thus:

A franchise cap of 24, a cast cap of 10, and within that cast cap is a Fandom OC cap of only 3. This is to ensure that MMO, DnD, and certain other canons which have both will be able to include playable NPCs, rather than be topped off on OCs alone. Anyone in a cast that is currently over the new caps is grandfathered in - of course no one will be forced to leave, but new applications for that cast will not be accepted until the number dips down below the cap naturally through drops. Applications for casts approaching the cap will be accepted on a reserve-only basis.

Thank you for all your suggestions, concerns, and considerations on this matter! Should you have any others, we as always welcome your voice.

Comments

[digiorno]

quick question regarding role switching: is this 100% an ic choice? is there any way it might not work on a particular character? i ask this because icly my character would jump at the chance but oocly i have zero interest in playing him as a witch, and i'm kind of concerned about remaining ic while also continuing to play with the monster game mechanic i apped in for.

+1

[starseedling]

Seconding this problem. Steven really wants to be a witch, but I don't presently want him to be. He'd definitely try it if it's something publicly known. It'd be good to have a way to avoid this.

[moustre]

Yes, it is 100% an IC choice. Should you not wish for it to work on your character, they might find themselves allergic to a key ingredient -- not unusual, as these are rare and haven't been ingested for centuries. Plenty of native citizens can't consume it either.

[foursakes]

question about magic from monsters that can’t be used as witches!! four’s canon output for magic/spells is through her singing/voice. as a former harpy with a siren’s song, would she still be allowed to use her voice to cast spells and not be able to “hook” anyone like a harpy’s song would, or would her singing voice just not be a good magical output to use in general?

[moustre]

She can absolutely use her voice to cast spells, particularly using it as her "focus" for magic! Join a choir, Four, you'll need the new friends.

[faithlikeaseed]

Does this require an exchange of role with another (possibly non-player) character to occur in all instances?

[moustre]

Yes, it does require exchanging roles with someone else. This is always going to be an NPC though, unless two players wish to work something out together, but we don't anticipate that being a common scenario.

[sporelett]

I do have concerns about the OC caps for D&D/Pathfinder specifically. Making original characters for those games are how you play them, so there's going to be way more demand for OCs in those fandoms specifically than for most other fandoms. Also, even if someone did want to play a published D&D character, since D&D is a game system, not a universe, there are a lot of different settings that those characters could be from within the umbrella of the D&D franchise. Even within a cast cap for an individual setting, like Dragonlance or Forgotten Realms, 7 published characters is way more than needed and 3 is not nearly enough. I honestly think the balance should be weighted the other way where tabletop RPGs are concerned, because as it is now, the cap is just preventing people from playing characters in those fandoms.

[krihnnges]

+1, also want to add that popular D&D campaigns, such as Critical Role and The Adventure Zone, are in that same boat. By and large, they're their own, standalone franchises, and if those are being classified as under the D&D franchise, that just makes it even worse.

+1

[sylphid]

Agreeing with all this here and adding my own concerns about a franchise cap re: games like Final Fantasy and Fire Emblem.

Most of those game are set in entirely different worlds from each other, the only thing they have in common might be gameplay or type of mechanics. It makes very little sense to me, whereas limiting Trails franchise makes perfect sense, since that's all set in the same universe with characters appearing in more than one set of games.

[exarchal]

+1 to all this. I'm curious to hear the reasoning behind it because it's a genre rather than a canon or franchise in the traditional sense.

[bleedinghare]

+1 as heck

i am literally incapable of not being verbose sry

[bleedinghare]

Similarly, I have some issues with this mechanic being choice-based. The mechanic being derived from choice feels like it's readying to sweep the rug out from under all the characters whose gaining of monster traits were less than ideal; especially in contrast with the situation in Dorch, what witch is going to want to become a monster, and what monster isn't going to want to become a witch? The original premise of the game doesn't involve the character being able to choose their monster/witch placement, so I feel like having this mechanic be something primarily involuntary with the rare voluntary swap seems to fit a bit more with not only character development, but the premise.

For instance: my character Adeline comes from an incredibly appearances-focused society and has struggled a great deal with her transformation (so she might grow through it and find some distance from the "mask" she's accustomed to wearing in polite society.) Given this new change, what's to stop her from simply... not being a monster anymore, except for "oh, it didn't work"?

Having the changes not work solely for the purpose of keeping a character transforming feels like a bit of a weak storytelling move, & begins to make the entire process seem like a string of uncanny coincidences. On top of this, given what I can imagine is going to be a big imbalance in the number of "monsters who want to be witches" to "witches who want to be monsters" (and hence the need for NPCs,) it just feels like we're going to have a grain silo full of NPC witches who are sheerly monster-swap fodder, and ultimately doesn't add to the game and again feels like a lukewarm move for storytelling.

Most of these issues are resolved with, as I said, the mechanic being something involuntary as with the monster/witch premise & the choices being the rarity, not the premise. The long & short of it is that I feel like posing the question "do you want to become a monster" to a witch has a very different meaning than asking a monster if they want to become a witch.

+1

[starseedling]

This is what I've been feeling as well. The idea that it simply doesn't work sometimes is serviceable, but it feels pretty unsatisfying on a narrative level, especially with the importance of the species divide to the rest of the game.

Also there is almost 0 reason for most witches to want to be monsters. Even if they have a thing for monster parts, they could just study transfiguration. It seems like a niche desire to the degree that people playing witches will have very rare circumstances in which it would make sense to go ahead with it, ICly. Whereas monsters have few reasons to NOT want it.

Witches can do pretty much everything monsters can do with magic if they train for it, so the only major reason to want to be a monster is OOC desires for transformation stuff. So this being an IC solution instead of an OOC one is a bit difficult.

+1

[sporelett]

I agree with this sentiment as well. There are definitely circumstances it might be cool to change a character's form for plot reasons, but having it be an in-character choice just doesn't work in a lot of cases, for reasons people have already covered.

+1

[sageprincess]

I don't even have much of an interest in switching myself, but I agree with all of this. Feels to me like it would be much simpler for whatever jamjar power that brought the character to aef in the first place to just... mess around with them randomly, just the same as they get messed with in their dreams sometimes.

+1

[hippocarnival]

Tbh adding onto this, a big part of why it being an IC thing is troublesome for people who want it is: there's really no downsides for being a witch like there is for being a monster. The class Schism is interesting but the reality is that monsters don't have anything a witch doesn't, with enough magic study, with less acceptance. Even if you account for NPCs wanting to switch, the question is why?

I'm all for opening role swapping but it feels kinda faulty with the supposed atmosphere of Aefenglom to make it a voluntary swap, which while not as bad as Dorch still has a notable bias and OOCly monsters don't have any benefits to being one aside from the player wanting to play with the transformation aspect.

It also feels like a missed opportunity to rope it into why the mirrorbound are here, what's pulling them in and behind the shared dreams and all of that.

[clickclickbang]

Can you explain what you mean by "franchise cap"? There are a lot of "franchises" that have...nothing to do with each other but are still technically a franchise such as Final Fantasy, Tales, and SMT (Digital Devil Saga, Devil Survivor, all the Persona games except P5, etc) and it'd be incredibly easy for two casts to fill up the "franchise" slots.

[tinyfood]

What kind of response do people around the city at large have to the news that it's possible to change from Witch to Monster and vice versa? With recent tensions that have been going on it seems like it's the kind of thing that would stir up some reactions from the average person on the street. What kind of mood around this can people expect to see? Is it generally accepted as a normal thing to choose to do among native Aefenglom citizens or is it considered weird or objectionable? Will there be social ramifications for player characters who choose to do this? How many non-player characters will be taking this opportunity – and for them, are there concerns about people from more dwindling Monster populations abandoning their heritage to assimilate, or about humans appropriating Monster culture, etc.?

[niespodzianka]

what exactly would the motivations be for an npc giving up their abilities as a witch to become a monster? are we about to see a thriving black market of abducted witches being sold to mirrorbound monsters? is there a cult of mirrorbound worshipping nutjobs lurking in our periphery? what's the ic backlash going to be like among monsters not given this opportunity, or against witches unwilling to swap?

[hippocarnival]

Speaking of caps: are y'all planning on any sort of game cap?

It really seems like you guys are stretched thin as things are, and it's impacting a lot of aspects of player involvement (investigations, plot cohesion, world atmosphere, etc). I don't think anyone would fault y'all from needing to put a hard cap on the amount of players you can actually have in game to be able to handle it.

[firewalled]

+1 to this. I've felt that some things that could have had mod/npc involvement and could have made for intriguing additions to the plot were sometimes just left alone, possibly because it's just too hard for mods to have the time for the player involvement. It has resulted in at least a few people I've talked to avoiding the game's plot entirely as they felt their contributions didn't matter.

[fordola]

not gonna lie, this whole change being an IC choice makes me a little... uncomfortable? basically, even if it won't work for OOC reasons, it now gives my character a motivation to continue trying it over and over, and now it's something which has to be ignored in order to keep things moving with her ICly.

i understand some people might have wanted this, but i didn't sign up for the game or a monster with the idea it could just simply be changed, and with knowledge of it coming out ICly. i think it would have made more sense as an ooc mechanic, perhaps it could have been the magic of the world messing with things? that could also lead to characters trying to study the world magic further, and finding out more about the setting.

i am also concerned about the franchise cap 'punishing' people who wish to roleplay from a less-popular part of the canon. as a final fantasy character, say i decided to play from one of the SNES games - that takes a slot away from 14 and 15, even if they only share chocobo between them. i know, i know, ff games are a paticular case, but i feel i need to say it. if you need help seeing which ff worlds are linked outside of silly crossover games and events, i am certain me or somebody else can help. (example: the ivalice alliance, that whole ff13 thing, and all that.)

(sorry for any spelling errors, i'm currently mobile.)

[bleedinghare]

+1

[curruid_coinchenn]

I know it's probably to help manage game size (and I understand, this game grew very quickly), but I feel like the caps should have been up to a player poll instead of just implementing them with limited feedback.

[escardos]

Agreed. We should have at least polled this, since we should have enough time between now and January apps in order to figure a solution that would work best for all of us instead of jumping to a conclusion so quickly.

[gehennawind]

Caps are probably a really good idea since it would be a big shame to inflict burnout on the mod team (though I don't have enough prior experience with different cap numbers to say which numbers are best for franchise or cast caps— I wasn't in game RP for a couple years or so before aef). The ability and desire to continue modding > larger casts.

I guess just commenting to leave another voice for and not against!

+1

[alienwear]

When it comes to OOC game management mechanics, I'm still very pro letting the mods handle things in the way that makes them feel the most comfortable and helps combat burnout.

[alienwear]

Expounding further on why I support the cast and franchise caps:

I totally get why people would be frustrated with the franchise cap. Like, say, if I wanted to play from a more unpopular Final Fantasy but the slots were all taken up by other games that were completely separate stories from my prospective canon, I'd be pissed.

HOWEVER... If you pull back and ask "what is the purpose of cast caps," having the additional franchise cap limitation makes more sense. Caps like that are largely meant to keep a particular canon/fandom from growing wildly out of control, before reaching the point of either dominating the game and/or growing too cliquey/insular. Right?

To keep using the FF franchise as an example: Final Fantasy 6 and Final Fantasy 7 may be completely different stories, but there's still a shared commonality there that makes it really tempting to specifically focus on tagging characters who are under that big FF umbrella with you. I don't think people do this on purpose. And I also completely get the appeal of wanting that kind of cross canon within a same series CR. But I also get why mods of a game might want to keep that sort of thing to a minimum.

To explain it another way: I've been on both sides of this issue. I used to play from the Transformers franchise, which is another massive franchise with a long history and multiple "technically separate" canons. When I first started doing DWRP, I started out playing from that franchise, and I remember people used to get rankled because, despite being separate stories, players across multiple TF canons still tended to flock to games in big swarms and were still fairly insular and cliquey in a way that was intimidating to people. I found this hurtful at the time, and didn't understand why this was a big deal until, years later, after I'd burned out on playing giant alien robots, I would be shopping for new games to join. I'd get really put off/intimidated when I'd find a huge game that had a taken list that was full of like, 20 different FF or Fate or SMT players.

To be clear, I'm not trying to call out any one particular franchise or cast here as being The Worst, nor am I accusing anyone of deliberately OR inadvertently engaging in cliquey exclusionary behavior. I'm just offering my own perspective on why I think this move makes sense.

+1

[sporelett]

I totally agree with this as well. I understand why it would be frustrating to not be able to play a character from a work that you feel isn't even related to all the works that people have made characters in so far, just because they're considered part of the same franchise.

However, as someone who has never played a single FF game ever, that whole category of characters is essentially the same to me. If like 30% of the game was taken up with characters from this popular series that I had no interest or familiarity with, it would be just as frustrating from a non-fan perspective regardless of whether all of the characters are from one popular game or a bunch of more niche ones.

So, having a total cap for the number of characters under one umbrella in an rp that's supposed to be open to people from lots of different fandoms makes total sense to me, and I think even if it's frustrating in some respects, it's still serving a pretty important purpose.